David Taylor spent more than $50,000 dollars out of people’s donations to transform a Mercedes into a limousine to drive guests around town.
— Full court transcript bellow: —
Q You testified at your last deposition that JMMI owns three vehicles, a BMW, a Mercedes and a Bentley.
Q Okay. Where is the BMW located?
A It’s inside this.
A At the residential center.
Q And what about the Mercedes?
A The same.
Q It’s at the residential center?
Q And the Bentley?
Q Residential center?
Q And where are the keys to that located?
A The same place.
Q Have you driven those cars?
Q Has Michelle?
A No. We need to have a driver.
Q So what are those cars used for?
A Basically when I have guests come in town or anytime ministry events —
Q What’d you say?
A Any time ministry —
Q Any time?
A Any time —
Q Oh, any time ministry is on —
A There are three events we have, that kind of thing.
Q What do you mean, we have that kind of thing?
A I’m sorry. What did you say?
Q You said, any time we have ministry events we have —
A No. That kind of thing. I said that kind of thing.
Q Yeah. What do mean, that kind of thing?
A A ministry event.
A Mm-hmm. Something. A crusade or maybe a service or some kind of ministry function, I’ll say it that way.
Q In St. Louis?
A It could be St. Louis. It could be here or other places. But usually we keep them residentially there in St. Louis.
Q So you — you drive like the Bentley to Detroit or Taylor?
A No, we don’t do that.
Q All right. So are those pretty much used exclusively in St. Louis?
A Mostly, exclusive in St. Louis.
Q And you said we use a driver a lot, I notice that you have the driver here today. Two of them.
A Yes, mm-hmm. 54 (Pages 210 to 213)
Q Why do you have two drivers today?
A Well, they’re not just drivers, they’re just agitants.
Q They’re what?
A Agitants or —
A Or security, if you want to call it that.
Q What was the word you used?
A That’s a church term so let’s just say security, you’ll understand that. Yes.
Q Security for whom?
A For whom?
Q Yeah. For whom?
A For me, I guess. I know the ones that are here with me, right.
Q You require security?
A Yeah. I’ve — yes.
A Well, I mean, doing ministry or being in the public is very, sometimes, dangerous, and you have crazy people out there and they have done crazy things so.
Q To you?
A Well, they try to at least.
Q Like what?
A I mean, any minister that’s in front of the masses will go through something like that.
Q You think that any minister has security?
A I mean, the Pope has a —
Q No, he does —
A — a thing that —
Q He actually doesn’t.
A That —
Q He drives a Focus.
A No, you know, no, no. I’m talking about —
Q So you’re equating yourself with the Pope?
A I’m saying that — you know that little thing he buys costs $2 million or however many millions that’s
bullet proof, right?
Q He doesn’t drive there.
A Well, somebody drives him.
Q He doesn’t use it.
A Well, what I’m saying to you —
Q Hold on.
A No. That’s —
Q The Pope does not use that.
A Let me say it’s the Catholic church spend billions of dollars on security, so don’t —
Q So you’re saying that you’re like the Catholic church?
A No, what I’m saying the little security that I do have, you know, don’t try to degrade that because —
Q Well, I’m curious why —
A — there are places that you all know that have security, so it — it’s not a big deal.
Q I don’t. I personally do not know of one pastor that uses security, not one.
A That’s not true.
Q Can you tell me any others that do?
Q Name one?
A Pat Robinson.
Q Oh, you equate yourself with those folks, those TV folks?
A Well, I — I mean, we’re all doing the same kind of ministry basically around the world so we — we have security because things happen so it’s important — I mean, I’m sure you’ve heard of people just coming in churches and just shooting people and stuff so it’s important to have that —
Q It’s important to have security?
A — security, yes.
Q Are these people armed?
A No, they are not armed.
Q So what kind of security do they provide? Are they supposed to take a bullet?
A They’re just going to help. I don’t know.
Q Well, no, seriously. What — what do you need a security force —
Q — for? Can I ask who pays for it? I mean, he’s been there all day. Two of them. So who pays for those folks?
A Well, they are actually volunteers, those two are volunteers.
Q And so, they aren’t compensated at all?
A Well — I mean, that ain’t, you know, they understand —
Q That ain’t?
A They understand — I’m from the countryside, I say ain’t so.
Q They understand what?
A They understand that they are volunteers and they’re here to help, but they’re really greatly. They’re blessed through this ministry so they’re not being misused like you’re trying to assume.
Q Well, actually, I’m — what do you mean greatly 55 blessed through the ministry?
A Well, I mean, they’re compensated so.
Q Okay. That’s what I’m asking.
A In their own way. Mm-hmm.
Q How? How do you compensate?
A Well, I mean, I can’t tell you —
Q Compensated their own way. What does that mean?
A I can’t tell you that money is always the best compensation. There’s other things as to —
Q Tell me what they are.
A Well, they’re getting blessed through the ministry and the work of what we’re doing so — they’re families and their lives so.
Q So they’re blessed?
Q And that’s their compensation?
A It could be one of them.
Q What would be another one?
A I couldn’t — I don’t know any other at this time.
Q But you’re saying you don’t give them money?
A Yeah, they’re not on salary if that’s what you’re saying.
Q No. Are they given any money?
A No, we — I mean, we — they are a part of the ministry and they do benefit from being around and being in different events and things we do that blesses them and their family so they’re appreciative of that. It’s something that you may not understand.
Q I’m just wondering who — how they pay their own bills if —
A Well, you’ve got to ask them.
Q — they’re volunteering all day?
A You’ve got to ask them.
Q But they’re blessed in the ministry somehow?
A You’ve got to ask them, yes, their life.
Q The three cars that we talked about, in whose name are the titles?
A They’re in the ministry name.
Q They’re all in JMMI?
A I think everything except the Bentley.
Q Who’s name is the Bentley in?
A It’s in DeWinn McDill.
Q I’m sorry.
A DeWinn McDill.
Q I need you to spell that.
A Yes. McDill.
Q And spell the last name. Is it a person?
A Yeah, mm-hmm.
Q What’s the last name?
Q DeWinn McDill.
Q And who is he?
A If I’m not mistaken, he’s one of the pastors in Montana that’s in (inaudible).
Q Pastors in Montana?
Q And he lets you keep the Bentley in St. Louis?
Q And who is authorized to drive that car?
A A driver — anybody in the ministry that’s one of our drivers.
Q I have a question, just from a — you said you minister to the poor and sick and all that. Isn’t it a little offensive to be driving around in a Bentley and a Mercedes to people that really, you know, are improvised and sick and ill and AIDS and drug rehab? Isn’t it a little offensive to sort of be show placing —
Q — what you have?
A Well, I don’t showplace to people and I’m — I’m not using that car —
Q Well, a Bentley.
A You don’t see me driving around in that car every day. I don’t do that.
Q But it’s in the ministry. Everybody in the ministry sees you in it. You said you drive it.
A I have before, and you just asked me have I drove it, it’s not something I drive every day or even every year, I don’t do that. I have drivers who pick up my guests, my high profile guests, politicians, pastors, some (inaudible) —
Q Who are the high profile — high profile —
A — movie stars.
Q Movie stars?
Q Who would the movie stars be?
A Just different ones.
Q Well, name — name a couple.
A I can name one, Richard T. Jones.
Q Richard — I’m not familiar with him. Richard T. Jones —
Q — is a movie star?
Q What about another one?
A That’s the only one I have for now. 56 (Pages 218 to 221)
Q That’s the only one you know for now. Okay. And when you say a high profile guest you said politicians.
Q Who would that be?
A If it’s a politician that would be one.
Q Name — name me a couple of those.
A He the — what’s — Gill — he used to — but he’s not no more, he’s out of office now. But he used to be the — I think the Secretary of Agriculture in that place at the — at the Capitol.
Q The Secretary of Agriculture?
Q You picked up in — in a Bentley from the —
A No, I didn’t say I did that but —
Q He came —
A It would be people who I would know like that.
Q Okay. Give me a couple names that you need a Bentley to drive around in?
A Well, I can’t give you that. No.
Q You can’t?
A No. No.
Q Well, do you see my point that people that —
Q — are suffering and getting whatever their last dime is and —
Q — donations and, you know, drug habits, to have them see you drive around your high profile guests in a Bentley or Mercedes might be offensive, and hopefully —
A It could be offensive if they didn’t know my life.
A But they know my life. It would be offensive for someone like you who’s trying to make it bad, you know, but, you know, because your attitude —
Q So it’s important to have a Bentley?
A It ain’t really important, that don’t make me.
Q Then you also have a Land Rover that you lease.
A Range Rover.
Q Range Rover.
A Yes, it’s not a Land Rover. It’s a Range Rover.
Q Which is the better one? I don’t even know.
A I don’t know. They’re just cars, that’s all.
Q All right. Then there’s a series of documents that total almost $50,000.
Q To Limoland.
Q In 2013 and ’14.
Q You have to answer yes instead of —
A Yes, uh-huh.
MS. RONAYNE: Let’s mark these as an exhibit.
(WHEREUPON, Defendant’s Deposition Exhibit Number Three was marked for identification at 4:11 p.m.)
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q And I’ll ask you to identify this. This came from Joshua Media Ministries, did it not?
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Okay. And it deals with October 1st to October 31st.
Q Could you acknowledge that on the top?
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Okay. October 9th, 2013, there was $10,000 paid to Limoland.
Q And that’s in St. Louis?
A No. That should be in Springfield, not Springfield, but in Missouri somewhere. It’s not in St. Louis.
Q But it’s in —
A It’s in Missouri.
Q The state of Missouri?
Q You have to answer yes.
A Yeah, mm-hmm.
Q Okay. What was that for?
A That was to cut the Mercedes into a limo.
Q It was to cut the Mercedes —
A — into a limo.
Q And who needs that?
A No, that’s for guests.
Q It’s for guests and for you?
A It’s mostly for guests.
Q When you’re entertaining guests.
Q When you’re entertaining?
A Well, not — when we have guests come in, high profile people, we —
Q You have to have a limo?
A — treat them that way. We don’t have a limo but —
Q And a Mercedes limo.
A Mm-hmm. We treat them —
Q You treat them?
A I said that we — we have hospitality, maybe that’s a better word.
Q Okay. Then —
A And this is not the first one the ministry’s had.
Q Oh, there’s a —
A There is another Mercedes limousine. That’s right. So —
Q What happened to that? What happened to that one?
A I gave up everything so that I could do ministry on a high level.
Q You gave up everything?
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q What does that mean you gave up everything?
A Well, you know, I didn’t have to but I voluntarily reduced my whole life so that I could — that was in 2005 to 2007 — so that I could —
Q About the time you filed bankruptcy?
A Well, I had to because of the — the — me trying to give up the home and some other stuff, I shouldn’t have even —
Q What do you mean? What do you mean me trying to give up the home?
A Well, I mean, basically I —
Q Went bankrupt?
A No, not really. I —
Q Not really?
A It was bad advice. Just someone gave bad advice and —
Q But you filed for bankruptcy and were adjudicated to bankrupt.
A Yeah. But it was just bad advice I —
Q So you call giving up —
A I didn’t do that.
Q — everything buying a 2.5 million house and having a Bentley and a Mercedes and a limo?
A No, it was years ago what I’m saying, so you’re trying to say —
Q What was years ago?
A — is you’re not — you’re not —
Q Well, tell me what was years ago? I don’t understand.
A In — I gave you the dates. The — I mean, the date — I mean —
Q When you went bankrupt?
A — the years —
Q About that time when you decided to scale back, is that what you’re saying?
A Yeah, but it wasn’t — I didn’t file bankruptcy because we were — because of that. That wasn’t —
Q Well, no, you had debt.
A Well, yes —
Q You wanted to discharge debt?
A No, no, it just wasn’t that actually.
Q What was it?
A It was cutting back so that I could reach more people in the ministry.
Q Okay. You’re going to have to explain to me how filing bankruptcy is cutting back so that you can —
A I never said that. You’re putting words in my mouth.
THE WITNESS: She’s lying again.
MS. RONAYNE: Can you read that back?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q So then you spent another $5,000 — I’m looking for it.
COURT REPORTER: Did you want to play back or are you —
MS. RONAYNE: No, that’s okay. I know what he said.
REPORTER: Okay. Repeat that then, what you said earlier.
MS. RONAYNE: Okay.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q So you paid Limoland almost $50,000 total.
A Almost 50,000.
Q And that was for what, to make a limo?
A To cut the Mercedes into a limo.
Q And you think that was a good use of the money that people donated to you and JMMI?
A Well, I mean, the banks certainly have looked at that on our books as good because it has an appraisal value of almost 200k with over 150,000.
Q What year is the Mercedes?
A I don’t know. I forget what year that is.
Q So did you at all mention to Mrs. Frazier when she gave you her million dollars that you were going to use almost 50,000 of ministry money to make a limo?
A We didn’t use her money to make a limo.
Q Yeah. But did you tell her —
A We had money besides her money.
Q But did you tell her that you’re going to use that ministry money for a limo?
A Again, I want to say to you, for the record, that her money was not used for a limo. We brought in way more money than —
Q From donations?
A — just from donations.
Q Some donors?
A It don’t matter. The point is, the ministry brought that in and so you cannot tell us how we allocated that and used her money for that, so her money went to a whole system of things so.
Q But you got this from donations and you decided to use it to make a limo?
A We really invested really good, the banks use that —
Q No. I’m just asking if that’s what you did?
A No, not the way you’re saying it. It’s — you’re fortifying — forging that.
Q I’m forging?
A Oh, yeah. You are, I mean, with your mouth, yeah.
MR. POTTS: Just — the question is —
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MR. POTTS: — did you use the money for the purpose —
THE WITNESS: No. So —
MR. POTTS: The answer’s yes.